Admins and Rules

[Daric]

I noticed that one of the CLR moderators asked people to stop spawn killing. Is that a rule now, cause if so I'll stop! Guess they just didn't notice that every one of the these rules, No Profanity, Treat others with Respect. Show good Sportsmanship, and No racial, ethnic, or sexual harassment tolerated, were being broken consistently in that same match, and well, all the others I've played! Is the N word really that cool to use over and over?

I assume that these rules apply to the UT3 beta demo that we just have to wait for the retail version for it to be worth packing in enough admins to maintain it!

Comments?

I think you have it right Daric as in "all of the above". Spawn killing is a cheesy action on a pub server especially in the current only available mode, VCTF where one does not have any options on where they will spawn (at least as far as I know). Best to stay away from that, and all the other stuff you mentioned.

[CarbonFire]

I think it also helps to look at the intent of the devs. On one section of the map, you have a spawn area where no vehicles or nukes can enter, and on another you can freely camp with the manta or other devastating weapon. I'd harbor a guess that the one that is protected is the intended functionality, and not the one that allows spawn raping (otherwise why would they bother protecting either of them?)

In warfare mode, I'd venture a guess that it will be entirely different, as spawns will be directly related to controlling objectives. As Slug mentioned, you'll be able to choose your spawn in that case, so spawn suppression becomes a valid tactic. With the ability to control where you spawn, you regain control and the ability to react to a camping opponent. In CTF, all you can do is hope you spawn on the other side, and that people aren't camping that as well (and there are multiple exits on the left spawn area)....or just die repeatedly.

As for everyone else, I can assure you that they will be dealt with in time. I'm sure the retail release will have full policing, as every other Cain's Lair server has had before it.

But ultimately its about your actions and not everyone else's. Again as Slug stated, its a rather cheesy action in CTF, and while not a directly-bannable offense, shows poor sportsmanship given the nature of the battlefield and gamemode. Thanks for bringing this to light though!


See you on the battlefield! :2thumbs:

[eminent]

yeah a few ppl having been dominating lately... the spawn.
its sad really, when you wake up to have a vehicle in your face and all you can do is go :| . Theres alot of exploits happening *cough* Tank in flag room*cough*, but sadly this is still in beta, and is a sad fact that UT CTF its in nature is automatically broken.

Well at least the good part is that someone has addressed the issue. Cya in the server...

[MajorDeath]

Tank in the flag room, or even the hellbender or scorpion is a bad one. I did notice you can shoot through the fence on the wall near where the tank parks. Shoot him in the butt with a deemer!!


As for everyone else, I can assure you that they will be dealt with in time. I'm sure the retail release will have full policing, as every other Cain's Lair server has had before it.

But ultimately its about your actions and not everyone else's. Again as Slug stated, its a rather cheesy action in CTF, and while not a directly-bannable offense, shows poor sportsmanship given the nature of the battlefield and gamemode. Thanks for bringing this to light though!


+100 very well put

MD

[Dead_And_Gone]

I can Guarantee that when the full retail version comes out, we will already know most of what is or isn't possible normally in the game, or desireable when it goes LIVE. Admin's and officers are playing Every Day, having fun, learning the nuances and game dynamics. When it gets rock bottom serious later, we will then have to put on our full Admin hats and get to work. lol

We hope our presence on the servers now will cool off some of this undesireable behavior, but this IS the Beta.

My suggestion is to play like a CLR. Have fun, kill your friends, don't be an asshat in play or in chat, and try to ignore stuff that sticks in your craw. :2thumbs:

Adolescent nasty messages in chat just makes the sender look retarded to me. Their vocabulary is limited, so they throw out the few words that they can remember. :twisted:

[Cain]

I noticed that one of the CLR moderators asked people to stop spawn killing. Is that a rule now, cause if so I'll stop! Guess they just didn't notice that every one of the these rules, No Profanity, Treat others with Respect. Show good Sportsmanship, and No racial, ethnic, or sexual harassment tolerated, were being broken consistently in that same match, and well, all the others I've played! Is the N word really that cool to use over and over?

I assume that these rules apply to the UT3 beta demo that we just have to wait for the retail version for it to be worth packing in enough admins to maintain it!

Comments?

Tell me who asked you to stop spawn killing ??? No, that is not a rule at all.

[LAMONT]

I spawn-killed to high heaven on Cains in UT2K4, never had a problem. Hell, some maps almost required it if you ever wanted to win. When your Core is in the middle of your spawn area... and instant respawns in UT...

VCTF, I could see its' uses as well. Do you no longer get the ~3 sec immunity when spawning?

[Slaughter]

Do you no longer get the ~3 sec immunity when spawning?
You do get a couple seconds spawn protection time. Plus, you can actually kill with the enforcer at times.

[rafles]

Last night N word and some other insults were really the topic of conversation all over the chat :|
I told them to stop... and you can figure it out their response :P

[Starfire]

In 2k4 there was no rule on spawn-killing. Do you remember when Ons-Urban first came out? Folks in leviathans camping enemy cores blasting everyone to high heaven as they spawned? No spawn-killing didn't become a rule, the server was adjusted to longer spawn protection and someone quickly came up with the version Ons-UrbanNoLevi to deal with it.

Frankly, if your team is dumb enough to let the tank come unhindered all the way across a map and spawn kill your base, you deserve it. War is all about tactics....your job is to figure out how to stop things like that.

[Premonition]

Well what would camping be with out a good song and a camp fire :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhskqPHF6cI&mode=related&search=

:2thumbs:

[Flak]

Charge up your alt fire on your Impact hammer and blast those pesky manta spawn campers in the nose. It knocks them back and does a lot of damage. Finish them off with the stinger or flak. I'm not a spawncamper but I don't mind them, I just try to beat the crap out of them. ;)

[dirtyoldgoat]

Think you're getting spawncamped now?

Wait till you get a levi sitting in your base spamming the crap out of you. :D

[Devilguns]

Theres alot of exploits happening *cough* Tank in flag room*cough*, but sadly this is still in beta, and is a sad fact that UT CTF its in nature is automatically broken.

A team I was on a couple of nights ago had our tank and Scorpion in the flag room with the bender sending shock balls through the center, the opposing team was still able to beat us in flag caps :roll:

[Starfire]

A well-placed deemer clears the flag room----people and/or vehicles.

[Daric]

Thank you all for the comments! I was a CLR for almost a year, playing as A4L.Daric{CLR}! I hated online play until I found a place where asshasts had little room to breath, and Cains was it! Now, not only do I play as a CLR, but I play as a CLR anywhere I play! I'm "second in command," if there is such a thing, in the clan I decided to join and all the rules and regulations are based around the experience I had here! For over a year I have done what I can to ensure the players on theutpub servers have the same experience! Thanks

The reason I posted this thread was not exactly to spark such a discussion about spawn killing! I do it and as a notorious UT2004 tank whore, I do it well. I know it sucks at times but it's a valuable tactic. And that we haven't seen the wrath of spawn campers that will emerge when the game has been about for a while! I will not mention the name of the person who asked players to stop spawn killing as it was not a problem to me, I just continued knowing that it was allowed! My problem is that they took time to notice something they didn't like, but when all the N and F words started flying, they maybe weren't offended and failed to notice, or at least respond, to the issue! And I just thought it was very un-Cains! But clearly as in the past, they haven't long, as you've all mentioned!

Thanks again!

[Daric]

Charge up your alt fire on your Impact hammer and blast those pesky manta spawn campers in the nose. It knocks them back and does a lot of damage.

Good to know, thanks!

[Daric]

Feel free to relocate this post if you wanna!

Now, I have to take second to say that it seems, apologies if I am wrong, that not to many people here, or on my home servers, have played VCTF. I don't mean to sound condescending, but CTF plays very different. The issues of vehicles in the flag room is not an exploit. The reason they do it is in UT2004 the rider on the mantas wing captured the flag. Contrary to my training in ONS, you could ride the wing much safer then the top once you knew why! In UT3 the rider has been demoted to the hover board! In either case, the driver carries the rider to the flag and captures it without even stopping. You wont prevent that to many times in 2004 without a vehicle positioned properly. The hover on the other hand, well you fall under any fire, so wont be as effective till it's practiced!

The primary defense was getting a vehicle on top of the flag and keeping Avril campers close and active at all times. The secondary defense was troops midfield acting as a safety! The offense was to send in waves to counter! A team that had a clue how to deploy the offensive waves would dominate the game! So much that the tank in close proxy to the flag or any vehicle on top was rendered useless.

The waves are as follows; Wave 1: one, or two if available, mantas head in opposite sides to draw Avril fire.
Wave 2: one manta loaded with five players, two on top and one per wing. The two on top are deployed as close to the flag as safely possible, and as close to the arrival of the first wave as you can manage. Their objective is to clear the flag room. Not the troops, they mean nothing, they clear vehicle coverage, with assistance from wave one. The waiting manta goes in, when they have an all clear, and drives over the flag so the rider picks it up. The 4th guy just rides. He's there to back up the flag carrier should he fall! Wave three, if available, backup of follow up! In a well organized offense wave three in turn becomes wave one, adding to the available players per wave and for defense.

Until you can mount an offense that can subdue that type of defence, expect it to own you!

These tactics make for a very fun and competitive game!

[Azarael]

All I have to say is that Mortar spamming the ET spawns was teh suck. Some spawn camping is good fun, but taking it too far pretty much ruins everyone's fun.

[KurlonT]

A team I was on a couple of nights ago had our tank and Scorpion in the flag room with the bender sending shock balls through the center, the opposing team was still able to beat us in flag caps

Ouch...was there a carwash going on too...:D

Actually the Hellbender's only job should be protecting the flag room while the Goliath provides covering fire from its spawn location. The map makes crossing the bridge in anything slow almost certain death so let the Manta and Raptor be on offense.

Besides there's the Redeemer and UDamage if you really want to clear out the Goliath or Hellbender.

[Rand{CLR}]

A team I was on a couple of nights ago had our tank and Scorpion in the flag room with the bender sending shock balls through the center, the opposing team was still able to beat us in flag caps

Ouch...was there a carwash going on too...:D

Actually the Hellbender's only job should be protecting the flag room while the Goliath provides covering fire from its spawn location. The map makes crossing the bridge in anything slow almost certain death so let the Manta and Raptor be on offense.

Besides there's the Redeemer and UDamage if you really want to clear out the Goliath or Hellbender.

That's not actually the best use of the Goliath. It's hard as hell to hit things at mid-long range on the bridge deck itself (it's even harder to hit things on flat ground in UT3 than in ONS because of the nerfed splash), so you're just basically hanging out for glimpses of the other tank, vehicles coming your way, and things headed to the flag room.

My preferred spot is up on the Spammer ledge. I can't remember how many Godlikes, Massacres, and Eagle Eyes I've already racked up there. You have near total control over the bridge, river island, enemy travel points, and the opposite Spammer ledge. You can also defend the flag area fairly easily. They'll snatch it, but you can usually make it back to kill the flag carrier before they can get away.

Some would have you attack over the bridge. That IS suicide if the other team is halfway competent. Guy named Smurffums advocates attack and I've seen him do it, but I'll just say if I were on the other side, he never would have gotten that close, regardless of foot/vehicle status on my side. It's very difficult to get the level of support you need to have this work to any degree. Even when I have support, it's very hard to get close enough to cover a flag attack.

Putting the Goliath in the flag room is the absolute worst thing you can do with the possible exception of putting it in the small spawn building. You completely waste the potential of the tank by doing this.

-Rand

P.S. On another note--Vets know this and are doing it, but NONE of the newer players are. If you see the enemy raptor, stop what you are doing and SHOOT AT IT. Use the minigun, shock rifle, or Avril and blast away.

I always appreciate tank heals and good teamwork, but continuing to heal a tank while a raptor is pounding away at it doesn't work. Shoot the raptor instead.

This is especially useful in the Beta, with the amped up Stinger minigun. 2 or more guys shooting at the Raptor will bring it down right quick.

[Rand{CLR}]

Another odd point I've noticed: I've seen a lot of folks use the Raptor for defense only. So we've got people trying to attack with the Goliath and hellbender (for some reason), and defend with the Raptor, and even sometimes with the mantas. :?

I hope once we get the full game, and some VOIP going, we can educate folks on how these vehicles are supposed to be used in given situations.

-Rand

[MajorDeath]

The Raptor is actually a great defensive weapon. It's no tank, but it sure drives the mantas crazy as they are base raping your entire team. It may not be the "best" way to use it, but it can be effective.

In Warfare, Raptors will be even more useful as a defensive weapon. Depending on how the game is being played by the other team will determine how I use the Raptor.

MD

[Rand{CLR}]

The Raptor is actually a great defensive weapon. It's no tank, but it sure drives the mantas crazy as they are base raping your entire team. It may not be the "best" way to use it, but it can be effective.

In Warfare, Raptors will be even more useful as a defensive weapon. Depending on how the game is being played by the other team will determine how I use the Raptor.

MD

It's as much the game/team strategy and dynamics as it is the map, and like you I change up in Raptors depending on situation--I was pretty good in those too in ONS. For this particular (poorly designed) map, I would say use the Raptors exclusively for attacking, and have the Hellbender/Spammer ball turrets, Goliath, and/or infantry work on the mantas.

-Rand

[{CLR}geneSW]

Raptor has too little health (or mini's have too much power) to really be usefil for a good attack. Mabey if you combine it with two mantas for a flag run then sure, because you now have 3 ways for the flag carrier to get away, but otherwise, i'd use it against the mantas on the group in this beta map. In open maps, open fire with that bad boy and let those missiles do their long range damage!

[Bonez]

Since I hate enemy mantas with a passion :pissed:

(I was abused by them in Ons UT2004), I love taking them out with the new scorpion .

So if I have the scorpion, I prefer to use it as a defensive weapon/manta killer.

But I am not really sure if that's the best use for it :?

[Rand{CLR}]

Raptor has too little health (or mini's have too much power) to really be usefil for a good attack. Mabey if you combine it with two mantas for a flag run then sure, because you now have 3 ways for the flag carrier to get away, but otherwise, i'd use it against the mantas on the group in this beta map. In open maps, open fire with that bad boy and let those missiles do their long range damage!

Most people still aren't coordinated enough to bring them down with the minis. When I go attack, I can usually knock out their tank, HB, and/or Spammer, not to mention their own Raptor, and maybe a few guys on the ground, and often still fly away for a repair on a handy rooftop. :D

-Rand

[Premonition]

Since I hate enemy mantas with a passion :pissed:
:?

I bet you dont hate them as much as me :) but then again i hate all vehicles on any map with flags!

[Devilguns]

I love camping and taking out mantas. Grab the avril then jump down and grab either the armor or jump boots. Climb to the near top of the suspension wires so snipers don't bother you and unleash hell from above. Leave ground vehicles for your tank to take out and if raptors become a nuisance go up a little farther grab the double damage and bring in down with the mini. Once you run out of avrils make a flag run, die and repeat :)

A team I was on a couple of nights ago had our tank and Scorpion in the flag room with the bender sending shock balls through the center, the opposing team was still able to beat us in flag caps

Ouch...was there a carwash going on too...:D

Actually the Hellbender's only job should be protecting the flag room while the Goliath provides covering fire from its spawn location. The map makes crossing the bridge in anything slow almost certain death so let the Manta and Raptor be on offense.

Besides there's the Redeemer and UDamage if you really want to clear out the Goliath or Hellbender.

Hahaha the thing that was really funny was there was no deemer or tank taking out action. The guy ran just through the middle lol. It was one of those long matches and the only thing I can assume were those guys fell a sleep. It wasn't until the guy was half way across the map when they started to frag the flag area, oh man I was laughing.

[KurlonT]

My preferred spot is up on the Spammer ledge. I can't remember how many Godlikes, Massacres, and Eagle Eyes I've already racked up there. You have near total control over the bridge, river island, enemy travel points, and the opposite Spammer ledge. You can also defend the flag area fairly easily. They'll snatch it, but you can usually make it back to kill the flag carrier before they can get away.



I like that spot too but it can be tough getting players to repair the tank sometimes since it's not by a spawn point or in range of the "heal me" horn...:D

[Rand{CLR}]

My preferred spot is up on the Spammer ledge. I can't remember how many Godlikes, Massacres, and Eagle Eyes I've already racked up there. You have near total control over the bridge, river island, enemy travel points, and the opposite Spammer ledge. You can also defend the flag area fairly easily. They'll snatch it, but you can usually make it back to kill the flag carrier before they can get away.



I like that spot too but it can be tough getting players to repair the tank sometimes since it's not by a spawn point or in range of the "heal me" horn...:D

Yeah, the "heal me" horn doesn't really work all that well in the beta. It's better as a "thank you" horn. :D I just move backwards to the ramping road between spawn building and flag house. About a third of the people who spawn in that building come out the opening closest to the tank at the hellbender/scorpion spawn, and sometimes those guys switch over to the link and heal up a bit.

-Rand

[ViTO]

I like that spot too but it can be tough getting players to repair the tank sometimes since it's not by a spawn point or in range of the "heal me" horn...:D

ViTO {CLR} has NO PROBLEM :plasma: round after round !!
I actually find it somewhat gratifying to keep the armor alive, I only wish more would think the same.

With some decent support you can have a nice long run !!
and BTW... I can always use it as an excuse when I have low scores :twisted: :twisted:

[Rand{CLR}]

I like that spot too but it can be tough getting players to repair the tank sometimes since it's not by a spawn point or in range of the "heal me" horn...:D

ViTO {CLR} has NO PROBLEM :plasma: round after round !!
I actually find it somewhat gratifying to keep the armor alive, I only wish more would think the same.

With some decent support you can have a nice long run !!
and BTW... I can always use it as an excuse when I have low scores :twisted: :twisted:

:2thumbs:

I'm still pretty proud that the weapon I was killed with the most while holding it, by far, was the link gun. When that happens, you're doing something right.

-Rand

[Dead_And_Gone]

Now that I know what the heck healed the armor, I'm game. :)

Never was too proud to heal armor in 2142 either. :2thumbs:

[ViTO]

For the record...a random thought.

Healing sounds much better then repairing ... he he he

HEALING FTW !!