Strategy Tips for vCTF Capping

[Rand{CLR}]

Share some of DrSin's strategy for capping...

There are two good ways right now. First is to have teamwork going with a hoverboard and manta/raptor combo. You fly to the flag, guy on the hoverboard grabs the flag, latches back on, and you take off and get back as soon as you can. Dr. Sin threw in a little extra by taking out like 3-4 guys on our way out with the flag, it was pretty fun to watch his manta work.

The above method is by far the fastest and most efficient, but with VOIP not working for most people, only those who have seen it work are going to know about it. It's not a real threat during the Beta period, but if people use it, it's very effective.

The other way is to go in on foot. You prepare for it by grabbing the jump boots and as much health and armor as you can. As soon as you grab the flag, you're moving. First jump boot jump gets you onto the spawn building area. You run through the back way there, which gives you a jump overlook onto the jump pad on the defender side of the bridge. From here you've got a couple different moves, but you're basically working through their side of the bridge, to head to your tower on the opposite end close to your flag building.

Your last jump boot action, assuming you can save it that long, is to ascend to the large building next to the flag structure, and use the roofs to get around and down to your flag for the score.

This method is very fast, and it lets you avoid most confrontation with defenders trying to get the flag back. If you can grab rockets on your way in, so much the better to blow up anyone chasing you.

The second method is easier to stop than the first. You have to know where the path leads and try to cut off the flag carrier. Helps to have a manta or raptor. The main guy who's been doing this in the server is really damn good, so you're in for a fight trying to stop him.

-Rand

[Apache Warrior]

You fly to the flag, guy on the hoverboard grabs the flag, latches back on, and you take off and get back as soon as you can.
How do you latch on? I successfully did it once but, I don't know how I did it.
Apache

[Rand{CLR}]

You fly to the flag, guy on the hoverboard grabs the flag, latches back on, and you take off and get back as soon as you can.
How do you latch on? I successfully did it once but, I don't know how I did it.
Apache

Sometimes it seems hit or miss, but for the most part, you have to be on the hoverboard, sort of facing your target vehicle, and be within about 20-30 feet. It should say "press fire to grapple vehicle" or something like that, and show a red crosshair on the vehicle.

It seems to happen more quickly sometimes as soon as you get on the board than if you are sitting on the board already waiting to grab something. And if there are two vehicles close by, it almost always wants to grab the one you don't want.

When I took the flag on the run with Dr. Sin, I just hopped on the board and fired as soon as I was on both to start and when I had the flag, and it worked pretty well.

-Rand

[darth_nevus]

also, you have to be looking at the "sortof" back of the vehicle. you'll get a funny targeting reticle, and just hit fire :)

[Flak]

Press forward when you're grappled, it will keep you closer to the vehicle.

Manta and raptor drivers, always keep an eye out for the flag carrier and pull up in front of them. (Don't run them over! hehe) Watch for the icon to be sure they are attached and then take off.

[Apache Warrior]

The only time I was hooked up the driver ran me face first into a wall. :shock: :D
Apache

[Rand{CLR}]

I've run guys right into the river before. I tended to try to make the leap over in one jump, and don't quite make it. :twisted:

Raptors are great for rides. The hoverboard hovers at any height.

Oh, two hints/words of advice: drivers--don't go after targets if you have a passenger unless it's a direct threat. I.E. don't start chasing the manta that just crossed under you to head back to your base. Do attack the raptor that just turned your way, or the tank that's going to blow your passenger to tiny bits.

Passengers--if your driver is forced to go on the offense, use your judgement on if you should stay on the ride or bail. If you're on a Raptor and they go after the other Raptor, you should probably bail and hope that a) he wins, and b) comes back for you (I would).

-Rand

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot when towing in not being able to react in time to make the same jump. Keep the ride as smooth as possible. Goat was doing a great job the other day towing me on the Manta.

This map though has a very bad location for the flag IMO. Its too easy to camp it on defense if you are so inclined. Park a bender or scorp in the little enclave beside it and spam any enemy that comes through. I haven't done that myself but the opportunity is definitely there.

[Storm_Shadow]

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot...
They get SPLATTERED when you jump it over the barriers?! :o (aw man, THAT's where they kept going...) :oops:

[Dead_And_Gone]

Hmmm.. I'll try camping the flag today.

My Other strategies I tried usually resulted in stat padding Limey's score.. lol

Too bad there isn't a Map showing the route the flag carrier should take. Some of the references don't make any sense to me atm. :(

[Apache Warrior]

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot when towing in not being able to react in time to make the same jump. Keep the ride as smooth as possible. Goat was doing a great job the other day towing me on the Manta.

This map though has a very bad location for the flag IMO. Its too easy to camp it on defense if you are so inclined. Park a bender or scorp in the little enclave beside it and spam any enemy that comes through. I haven't done that myself but the opportunity is definitely there.
There were players doing that last night on my team.
Apache

[Rand{CLR}]

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot...
They get SPLATTERED when you jump it over the barriers?! :o (aw man, THAT's where they kept going...) :oops:

More like the "Wile. E. Coyote" school of splat, an almost cartoonish effect where the boarder will hit the wall, fall off the board, and be lying in a pool of their own pain at the base for a few seconds until they can climb back up.

-Rand

[TheHarlander]

The second method is easier to stop than the first. You have to know where the path leads and try to cut off the flag carrier. Helps to have a manta or raptor. The main guy who's been doing this in the server is really damn good, so you're in for a fight trying to stop him.

He did it to me quite a few games in a row. We tried to stop him but he had great rocket skills. So I figured I'd learn from him and have been doing that whenever I can. Work's pretty well, I just need to get my killing skills up to par.

[th3st1ck]

yeah, i was using the raptor/hoverboard combo last night with some dude, we got it down pretty good!

he would fly me in, drop me off, i would grab the flag and latch back on, and fly off...

of course it wasnt that easy, but it was a blast when it worked!

[juneau]

yeah, i was using the raptor/hoverboard combo last night with some dude, we got it down pretty good!

he would fly me in, drop me off, i would grab the flag and latch back on, and fly off...

of course it wasnt that easy, but it was a blast when it worked!

I've been trying desperately to use that tactic over the past few days. But one of two things keep happening.

1. I get the manta but nobody attempts to latch onto me.
2. Somebody else get's the manta and goes off pancake people.

I need some tactically minded people on the same team as me. :D

[TheHarlander]

Me and that MegamanX fellow did the Raptor a few times, was a rush when it worked. :D If I ever see ya on, we can try, but it fails more often then not.

Thats another thing I agree with, I'm used to console voice chat and having to type again angers me. :P Not as much team work goin' on as there could be.

[Rand{CLR}]

Yeah, VOIP is going to entirely change the equation. It'll be a heck of a lot easier to coordinate with voip up and running. I can't wait. :2thumbs:

-Rand

[Mojo]

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot...
They get SPLATTERED when you jump it over the barriers?! :o (aw man, THAT's where they kept going...) :oops:

More like the "Wile. E. Coyote" school of splat, an almost cartoonish effect where the boarder will hit the wall, fall off the board, and be lying in a pool of their own pain at the base for a few seconds until they can climb back up.

-Rand

Us older guys might be reminded of one George of the Jungle

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/Mojoclr/george1.jpg

[{CLR}geneSW]

Best not to jump over barriers in the Manta while towing. I got splattered a lot when towing in not being able to react in time to make the same jump. Keep the ride as smooth as possible. Goat was doing a great job the other day towing me on the Manta.

Actually, if you do it early enough, you can get them to go over it with you, be sure to squash back down though to keep your flight pattern a bit erratic. honestly, If you're going to be using the manta for something like this, the flag carrier should have at least 199 health, and would be a good idea to also have some armor to help decrease the damage taken from erratic flight patterns us "pilots" use to get you "flag guys" from point A to B and back again.

[Rand{CLR}]

More like the "Wile. E. Coyote" school of splat, an almost cartoonish effect where the boarder will hit the wall, fall off the board, and be lying in a pool of their own pain at the base for a few seconds until they can climb back up.

-Rand

Us older guys might be reminded of one George of the Jungle


Watch out for that....tree.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Road Runner/Coyote predate George of the Jungle.

-Rand

EDITs to fix quote format

[Rand{CLR}]

I'm bumping this thread to add a few pointers both general and specific for the beta map Suspense. Geared more towards newer players, it applies to everyone, and is based on what I've been seeing in a number of hours of gameplay. I end with some more detailed discussion of Goliath use on this particular map. Too many people are wasting its potential, and I don't take it nearly as much as I may like because I almost feel guilty using it on this map, so I'll pass along some words of wisdom. :wink:

General

1. If you see a Raptor, shoot at it. The only people who have been doing this so far are ONS vets, but EVERYONE should pull out the stinger minigun, Avrils, Snipers, and Enforcers (when high up), and flak (when lower), and shoot at the Raptors. For that matter, these work on Mantas and other vehicles too, but it's especially important. Keep the Raptors off your best defensive assets. Stop them from ruling the battlefield. They die or flee real quick when 3 or more people are pinging them with minis.

2. Heal vehicles whenever you are passing them. It only takes a moment to switch to link, and even if you just heal it as you're literally running by them, you provide enough of a health boost to maybe keep it alive through the next attempt by someone to kill it. (Use your link, secondary stream mode, to heal things).

3. You only need a couple of defenders. Everyone else should be trying to attack. At most you need about 5-6 guys on defense. If you have a hellbender or scorpion covering the flag room, Hellfire SPMA (Spammer) up and running, and the tank is nearby, you only need 2-3 guys to help keep things healed, kill flyers, and chase after anyone that may actually get the flag. I'm seeing FAR too many defenders, which is one reason why there are so many endless overtimes.

Raptor Role

Some will argue this one. Their argument is valid only if they are accomplished at how they choose to use the asset and to the degree of their success; this is one area where skill does matter to a degree:

1. The Raptor is not a defensive weapon on this map. It's an attack weapon. You're wasting a prime attack asset if you do nothing but float in the rear of your base and wait for their Raptor to come to you, or a manta to come by that you can shoot a dozen missiles at and hope for a hit. Without using it on attack, your very best weapon to take out a tank or spammer is useless.

The Goliath/Tank

Some will argue this next one too, for various reasons. If you don't know me and my skillset from ONS, and/or didn't play much with me in the BF series, just trust me on this one, I know what I'm talking about. Anyone who tells you different from what I'm about to say is wrong when it comes to this specific vCTF map:

1. The tank is a defensive weapon on this particular map.

The very best place for the tank is up on the area where the Spammer, Hellbender, and Scorpion spawn. By the SPMA, you have a superb view and dominance of the battlefield, playing both a protected offense and very good defensive role. Further back, you can get heals and cover the flag room and fastest way out by guys on foot very well.

The absolute worst places for the tank are IN the flag room, and over at the tank spawn, especially if you're ducking into the smaller spawn building. In the flag room, you're completely wasting its potential to dominate by focusing your attention to just the flag itself and a few feet to either direction. Anything with amped weapons or a deemer can kill you through the fence before you can see it, let alone turn around and react.

By the tank spawn, you have some view of the bridge, but you also have some of the toughest shots in the game: tank against infantry at distance on flat ground. The reduction of splash damage combined with the randomness of shell deviation at distance mean anyone you kill on the bridge on foot is a function of luck more so than anything else including skill. Ducking into the spawn building so limits your field of view as to make you nearly as useless as being in the flag building.

A second school of thought tells you to put the tank in the open behind the flag building, and have you move back and forth to avoid weapons. Better than the spawn area, but not great. You're too open there, allowing for any number of vehicles to get closer to you, and for the Mantas to easily get behind you. Moving back and forth as much as you'll need to do also lets you miss things. And half the people I see doing this completely ignore the flag area. I watched a guy ramble on and insult me and others about using the tank this way yesterday. The other team took the flag from his watch and scored 3 times because not once did he try to defend the actual flag room, prefering to shoot at things downfield. He could easily have taken out the carrier but didn't even try. Same issue with infantry on foot, only worse because you're further back.

Some sit up on the ledge next to the flag building at the large spawn area. Better than the above, but you have no view of the approach. You're in a pure defensive mode with no chance for offense here. Not recommended, especially since guys coming in on attack from that spawn area are going to mess you up before you can turn the turret around. Skilled tank killers will get you here by hitting you through one entrance with full rockets, and then getting you from the second as you try to react.

The final school of thought you'll see are people saying the tank should attack. This is suicidal, even for me. You have to have a heck of a lot of healing support to be halfway successful against an average team, and healing support is hard to come by so far. Against a good team, no amount of healing will keep up with the onslaught of enemy weapons. The only times this works are against mediocre teams that don't know how to stop a tank. This tends to give this school of thought some credence. However, it's the worst advice you can get on this map. Any team with a couple of ONS vets is going to completely and utterly destroy the tank before it gets anywhere near a place where it can cover a flag attack.

Using the tank in pure offense in this manner wastes it. Sitting it in pure defense in the flag room or spawn area wastes it. You need to have it somewhere where you can balance both roles.

Ignore anyone telling you otherwise, especially if they're telling you that you're wasting the tank by not attacking, or that "it's the strongest weapon in the game, how can you say it's not good on attack?!!" They are flat out wrong on this. I'll grudgingly admit that defense can be helpful on Suspense even if you waste the full potential, but I cannot stress this enough: attacking by taking the tank forward is the wrong thing to do on this particular map.

Hope this helps someone, especially those new to UT. :2thumbs:

-Rand

P.S. Other maps are a different story. The Raptor and Goliath usage specific tips apply to Suspense only, for now.

EDITED for formatting and typos

[juneau]

Great write up Rand. A lot of the things i already knew/do, but there's still a few handy hints for me to use. :2thumbs:

[Starfire]

Load up on link charges and take raptor to high building next to enemy flag room. Continually peak out over edge and shoot at tank, raptor, manta etc. You can basically keep the enemy raptor down as you have the upper hand when theirs first takes off. As you take damage, park it on building, repair and repeat. By suppressing the majority of the enemy's vehicles (or at least vehicle harassment) your team then can coordinate an effective attack.

[MoleRat]

I feel the need to add one more small thing. (and I think i've seen in on the forums before.)
I know it can be hard in the heat of the moment to realize when this happens, but please try.

STEAL ABANDONED ENEMY VEHICLES!

If someone dumps a manta/scorpian/raptor to try and get the flag, nab it.
In my mind especially the raptor and scorpian.
The reasons for the raptor are pretty obvious (air domination anyone?).

The scorpian because its a freaking manta killer with those lil homing balls of doom (it also nails hoverboarders nicely).
I can't count the number of times i've gone around the corner, in the manta with or without a grappler attached, or as a grappler hooked to a manta, just to have their scorpian nail us both with those lil balls. Take their scorp and its suddenly that much easier for your manta to move around the enemy base.

Also, a point of note. When i've been in the scorp i've noticed that when i fire at manta drivers i often times kill the driver without destroying the vehicle. This happens often enough that i'm conviced, when the manta is at full health, the scorps lil balls of doom and death will kill the driver leaving the manta working every time.

(however i usually see someone else step in and blow up the manta)