Need a second opinion about ram.

[(DSP)-Bar]

Hey all, Been considering getting some more ram for my Pc and wanted another opinion on what might work better.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145527

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820141199

The main set I have been looking at.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231018


Not really sure which one to pick. I have a 1 gig and a 256 chipsets in my pc already. I have been looking at the Gskill cause that is what my 1 gig chip is. Any thoughts on what might be a better choice ?

Thanks
-Bar

[juneau]

Just get the cheapest from a reputable manufacturer. Buy another gig and ditch the 256mb. :)

[(DSP)-Bar]

Well I have 4 slots so... 1 256 chip, 1 gig chip and I am looking at buying 2 more gigs.

[Rand{CLR}]

Your motherboard seems to support dual channel (otherwise why those sets), so why not knock out the 256 at the same time? :?

Funny you should mention this. I just placed an order for another 2 gigs (for 4 total, 3.whatever in Vista 32bit) last night, for Corsair XMS DDR2 800 PC6400 that has a $30 mail-in rebate, final price will be $37.00. Got some heat spreader bling for my two cheapo factory-installed Value Select PC6400 chips too.

Tis the season for more Ram I guess. :D

-Rand

[(DSP)-Bar]

Well I am just looking at price range I guess, can afford 2 gigs so I figure I go ahead and get them. But with an extra slot open... might as well leave the 256 in until I buy the extra gig. Unless it is going to be a hindrance.

[darth_nevus]

Well I am just looking at price range I guess, can afford 2 gigs so I figure I go ahead and get them. But with an extra slot open... might as well leave the 256 in until I buy the extra gig. Unless it is going to be a hindrance.

Chances are your mobo is dual channel capable. in that case it is far more adventaggres to buy a 2gb kit thats dual channel rated, rather than sticking 3 stick in. once the 3rd stick goes in, the mobo will turn off the dual channel, and you'll lose the increased performance.

[(DSP)-Bar]

Well I am just looking at price range I guess, can afford 2 gigs so I figure I go ahead and get them. But with an extra slot open... might as well leave the 256 in until I buy the extra gig. Unless it is going to be a hindrance.

Chances are your mobo is dual channel capable. in that case it is far more adventaggres to buy a 2gb kit thats dual channel rated, rather than sticking 3 stick in. once the 3rd stick goes in, the mobo will turn off the dual channel, and you'll lose the increased performance.


Ok, that didn't make and sense to me. So what you are saying is that if I leave my 256 chip in "might" cause a conflict ? I know my board can handle a 256 and gig sets at once but I have never owned a Pc with more then my current setting. I have been playing on Computers for a long time now but I have never had anything that can hold up to this level. So I don't really know anything about it. I knew with mine that I could mix 2 types but I have never gone past the 2 slot mark because I have never needed anything more. I know I want to add more to it for some better rates but if the 256 is a possible conflict then I will take it out. I mean upgrading 2 gigs... that 256 is a drop in the bucket.

[juneau]

What he's saying is that for dual channel to work it needs to be in a exact configuration. 2x2gb, 2x1gb, 2x512.

[(DSP)-Bar]

Ok so hopefully this doesn't sound utterly retarded but hopefully I got this right.


I have 4 slots but because I don't 4 gigs it is better to have my 1 gig and a 2 gig chips in rather then 3 single chips.


Edit


Or I if I buy 3 gigs and add it to my 1 gig it should work fine ?


Sorry i am not to great with this subject. Thats why I am asking lol

[CHOPS123]

Buy dual channel ram. You need it installed in Pairs. So if you have 4 slots...Dump the 256 stick and go with Gig sticks. Since you already have a gig stick of Gskill I would prob stick with that brand. Just make sure the Gig stick you have now is dual channel and the one you buy is dual channel

[darth_nevus]

bar. for the cost of ram, here my suggestion. Take what is in it out and DON'T use it again. Seems like a HUGE waste, however, there are bigger benefits to NOT using them.

"Dual Channel" ram require 2 virtually identical sticks of ram. they are usually paired at the factory, hence the 2x1GB sticks, etc.

Dual channel is much better(BY ALOT) than single channel. much faster.

All 3 sets you ave above (my choice is the G. Skill) will work perfectly.

By adding the 3rd or 4th stick, you SLOW down the ram(more technical description i won't bore you with. just remember mismatched ram "pairs" = slow) that you already have. this is because they are not "paired"

The one you are leaning towards is what i'd go with. set the other sticks off to the side, save them, whatever, but DON'T put them back in.

Adding back in the old ram:
Will it screw up your system if you do. NO.
Will it slow it down. YES. but not really any slower than its running now.
Will it cause problems with windows or anything else. NO.
Will you be able to use all 3+GB of ram. NO. Windows limitations apply here.
Will you have more ram total to use. YES. but not by too much or as much as you think. Again, this is windows fault.

Long story short.

Darth's recommendation. Buy the 2x1GB sticks of G. Skill Ram. remove the old stuff. put it in the new ram's packaging, and set it somewhere safe. put the new stuff in. Be happy with 2GB of ram, and not 3.

[(DSP)-Bar]

Argh... I am gonna have to spend a few hours on this one lol...

[random_id]

Darth's recommendation. Buy the 2x1GB sticks of G. Skill Ram. remove the old stuff. put it in the new ram's packaging, and set it somewhere safe. put the new stuff in. Be happy with 2GB of ram, and not 3.

I would do the same. Although given those links in first post, I would go with PQI Turbo because of faster timings (compared to G.Skill).

[juneau]

Darth's recommendation. Buy the 2x1GB sticks of G. Skill Ram. remove the old stuff. put it in the new ram's packaging, and set it somewhere safe. put the new stuff in. Be happy with 2GB of ram, and not 3.

I would do the same. Although given those links in first post, I would go with PQI Turbo because of faster timings (compared to G.Skill).

You have to remember that timings are litterally pointless now compared to DDR with it's really agressive timings paired with the A64 platform.

[random_id]

Darth's recommendation. Buy the 2x1GB sticks of G. Skill Ram. remove the old stuff. put it in the new ram's packaging, and set it somewhere safe. put the new stuff in. Be happy with 2GB of ram, and not 3.

I would do the same. Although given those links in first post, I would go with PQI Turbo because of faster timings (compared to G.Skill).

You have to remember that timings are litterally pointless now compared to DDR with it's really agressive timings paired with the A64 platform.
Any actual examples of why/how they are pointless?

Edit: ok, just wasted some of my time running a quick benchmark with my 4GB of DDR2 RAM (on a P35 chipset) using Valve's Lost Coast (64-bit version):
With default timings (5-5-5-15) I get 89 FPS average.
With increased timings (6-7-7-17) I get 80 FPS average. So no, RAM timings are NEVER pointless when it comes to performance :P

[darth_nevus]

using Valve's Lost Coast (64-bit version):
With default timings (5-5-5-15) I get 89 FPS average.
With increased timings (6-7-7-17) I get 80 FPS average. So no, RAM timings are NEVER pointless when it comes to performance :P

Whoa. you have something REALLY awry there if it makes a 10% difference based on your ram timings.

[juneau]

RAM timings create no real benefits in DDR2, unless of course you like to run RAM benchmarks.

I find it hard to believe that RAM timings gave you an extra 9fps. It musthave been another factor. :)

[random_id]

using Valve's Lost Coast (64-bit version):
With default timings (5-5-5-15) I get 89 FPS average.
With increased timings (6-7-7-17) I get 80 FPS average. So no, RAM timings are NEVER pointless when it comes to performance :P

Whoa. you have something REALLY awry there if it makes a 10% difference based on your ram timings.

Nothing is "awry" - it's a clean, fresh installation of x64 Vista on a completely new hardware (still have empty UPS box laying in the room), the system works smooth as butter with not a single crash or any kind of problem :P

[random_id]

It musthave been another factor. :)

...yea, my black cat crossed my path when I took a bathroom break between the tests :D

[Duke{CLR}]

Did you run the benchmark three times under each setting and take the averge?

[random_id]

Did you run the benchmark three times under each setting and take the averge?
Of course I did! How else do you benchmark things? :P

[Duke{CLR}]

You said you ran a "quick" benchmark so I though you may have taken shortcut.

[random_id]

You said you ran a "quick" benchmark so I though you may have taken shortcut.
Nah, no shortcuts, I know that teh Valve's Lost Coast benchmark gives you slightly different results each time you run it, that's why I run it several times then took the average and rounded it up to a whole number :D

[WalkinTarget]

Will it slow it down. YES.

Thats what I've been telling people for years !! Adding RAM to your PC only slows it down, so strip it back to 128mb !! Its sooo pointless having all that extra RAM just sitting there when its never going to be used !

Just make sure and make it 2 64mb sticks, as one 128mb stick in single channel mode will sorta suck.

Now, back to reality:
We had two identical PCs delivered to us at work, so I being teh hardware geek (yea, I know .. shocker!!) set about benching them. There was a HUGE difference in performance, on the order of 18%, when benching, so I set about finding the difference.
The ONLY change was the RAM was in dual channel mode with 2 sticks in the faster PC and a single stick in the other. Swapping them around brought back the performance for the piggy PC, and in turn bogged down the faster PC.
That was on an Intel chipset, so benching on an AMD would net different results, something along the lines of 5-7% difference, so platform of choice at that time made a huge difference.

Since AMD is on the short end of the stick, if you are buying RAM, suffice to say that you should always be buying in pairs, unless you already have one stick. And you NEVER want to run odd numbers of RAM (1 or 3 sticks).

[darth_nevus]

firstly, dual channel basically allows data to be writtin to both sticks at the same time, effectively doubling the performace of being able to write to the ram. single channel, only writes to 1 stick at a time.

secondly. on the old A64 boards, the built in memory controller wasn't built to handle ram perfectly. 1 or 2 sticks, ram would run at DDR 400. at 3, it runs at ddr333, and at 4, it runs at ddr266. this was basically because of the time thwe A64's memory controller took to look up which stick it was on, and then go pull it, while keeping the data timeline intact.

this is yet another reason why i plead with you to only use 2 sticks. more is not always better, as the speed drops according to the # of populated slots.

[Rand{CLR}]

Side note: My RAM just showed up (delivery on Xmas eve, 2 days after ordering. Newegg rocks), but I can't install it until I get home from family stuff tomorrow and have my own xmas with the wife. :cry:

-Rand

[(DSP)-Bar]

Side note: My RAM just showed up (delivery on Xmas eve, 2 days after ordering. Newegg rocks), but I can't install it until I get home from family stuff tomorrow and have my own xmas with the wife. :cry:

-Rand


PWN3D



I am just gonna order 2 sticks and get it over with and remove my current.... anything has got to be better then what I am running at rate now.

[Rand{CLR}]

I installed it anyway, while the wife was downstairs watching Live Free and Die Hard. :twisted: It reads 2.8GB, but that's ok; I also found out it looks like one can get 64bit Vista for only like 10 bucks if they have the 32 bit version, if and when the time is right, so the full 4GB will show up then.

Bar, sounds like a plan. A matched pair of low latency, high speed stuff will do wonders. :2thumbs:

-Rand

[imlittlev]

64 bit vista is $10?

[(DSP)-Bar]

I installed it anyway, while the wife was downstairs watching Live Free and Die Hard. :twisted: It reads 2.8GB, but that's ok; I also found out it looks like one can get 64bit Vista for only like 10 bucks if they have the 32 bit version, if and when the time is right, so the full 4GB will show up then.

Bar, sounds like a plan. A matched pair of low latency, high speed stuff will do wonders. :2thumbs:

-Rand


I said screw it and bought 4 gbs... get it over with. Ram is cheap now anyways.

[random_id]

64 bit vista is $10?
Yes if you own a 32-bit version already.

[imlittlev]

aw, too bad they dont make it cheap to upgrade from xp... then it might be reasonable.

[(DSP)-Bar]

WoOT !! my ram just got here... :D

[imlittlev]

^LUCKY!

ups is, according to their schedule, is going to take about 5 days,not counting holidays, to ship my ram , which i specifically requested 3 day shipping :(

[Duke{CLR}]

^LUCKY!

ups is, according to their schedule, is going to take about 5 days,not counting holidays, to ship my ram , which i specifically requested 3 day shipping :(

I may have been 3 Business days. Anyway if it takes more then that you should call customer service and ask for a refund on the extra charge.

[BenKenobi]

Rand, you're going for 64 bit ?

[Rand{CLR}]

Rand, you're going for 64 bit ?

Not for some time. There needs to be A LOT more stuff that uses 64-bit, or at least has 64-bit drivers. I was just commenting that I learned about the $10 upgrade this past week; did not know about that before.

-Rand