Commanding

[Tanari]

Figure i'll be the first to bring this subject up, prolly not the first time ever, but i'm sure is fairly new.

WHAT IS THE JOB OF THE COMMANDER?

First some facts:

1. Commanders can see more of the battle then anyone, they have sat track which allows them to spot enemys.

2. Commanders can drop supplys to friendlys

3. Commanders can use UAV.

4. Commanders can EMP (useless in most cases)

5. Commander can move titan (NOT) :)

6. Commander can issue orders to squad commanders (orders may or may not be followed)

7. Commanders score is based on the average of his team. He gets no points for killing,taking silos,repairing, healing, or any other action that would normally give a normal soldier points.

8. Commanders do still recieve credit towards pins,medals,leader board, badges, for all actions that would merit one of these awards.

9. Commander gets a 2x bonus when his team wins.

I prolly missing a couple other things, but these are the nuts and butter.

So I ask you what is the commanders job?

My opinion: I think the commanders job is to win any way he can minus cheating/glitching. The 2x bonus is a strong indicator that winning is the commanders objective. Along with the fact that I play games to have fun, but I have no fun losing all the time. So winning plays a factor in my "FUN". I don't expect to win every match, but a nice 2:1 ratio give or take is great. So my opinion is that winning is the commanders job.

I personally think a commander is that 32nd man on the battle field, in whatever shape/way/form that might be, gunship,tanker,jeep, transport, etc etc. I think the commander should do what he's best at in order to possibly tip the scales in the favor of his/her team. Does this negate his responsibilites to use UAV,EMP.Supplies,Sat track, i'd say that all depends on the situation at hand and the negative impact its gonna have on the commanders ability to continue tipping the scales. Basically the commander is the commander what he does is his own business, if he decides to support someone (uav,supplies,etc) then thats his choice, but if he choses to ignore thats also within his choice. I've seen commanders support the troops to the best of his ability ( which was way high) and still lose. Maybe if he had been in a tank and supporting less the scales would be tipped. We also must consider the fact 9/10 people don't listen to their squad leaders let alone the commander. And most squads don't give orders, or request anything from the commander. I understand some squads do, but the majority don't.

Putting Major Mass. on the spot in this epic post.

Major Mass is commander, he jumps in a tank gets 40-50 kills, never drops a emp,uav,supply drop (cept for himself), and never issues an order. His team wins the match. Is this acceptable?

Major Mass next round doesn't do anything he sits on the titan, gives orders, supplys, uav,emp, etc to everyone, along with accepting squad leaders orders for help. No one listens to him, because its a public server and they don't care about winning they just want points. Major Mass loses. Is this how commander is suppose to be?

Now I am commanding and get in a gunship and I get 40-50 kills, I drop minimal supplies,uav,emp when requested or within a minute or two of the request, I keep enemy from getting to back silos cause i have sat track and can spot the transports. When enemy titan sheilds go down I ask all SL's to please attack the enemy titan, if our titan needs it I call SL's back to defend. Other then that I leave people to do as they want, after all they paid to buy the game just as I did. What gives the commander the right to order people, commander isn't voted on, commander can be a private, commander could be a moron, but what right does he have to be "ordering" people around. SL's in my book can order people around because they have the option of kicking people from squads, and its by choice that that person is in the SL's squad therefore he understands that its either follow orders or leave. Some SL's do this some don't but once again that falls into the domain of freedom of choice.

So for those who made it this far without hitting your back button and going on to the next new topic, what is the commanders job? What is he allowed and not allowed to do, and lastly what rules on the server prevent him from doing things he not suppose to do other then cheating/glitching/asshating. And remember if its not on the start up screen for cains server 90% of the people will have no idea what the rules are regarding commander, unless its in there with no glitching,cheating,asshating, and titan movement denied.

I think the commanders job/duty/obligation is toWIN

If there is some rule, that CLR has laid down regarding this by all means let me know, but if there isn't i'd like for CLR members to stop harassing me and other players about the correct way to command, that folks ain't allowed to do this or that while commanding. My team the other night with me commanding won something like 35+ wins, with me dropping MAYBE 3-4 dozen supplies,uavs,and emps during all these matchs. On top of that I never once ordered squads to any silos, all my orders were done verbally to the SL's they chose to ignore or follow my orders, regardless though 35+ wins I think this goes to show that jus cause you don't follow the popular belief of what a commanders job is, that doesn't mean with a little abstract thinking that you can't still win.

Anyways this is by no means a rant, and its not just CLR that point commanders out who don't follow the popular belief that commanders command from the titan, but CLR are basically the only people that have any weight sway with what I do in the game, its an awesome server, its got great people, I love playing here, but at the same time if I working on a badge, I don't need folks I respect telling me I can't do something my way, but must do it their way.Unless of course i'm breaking the rules then yeah I need to respect the wishs of that person.

Anyways love yas all, great people, great server, great fun. Peace

Tanari

[Tanari]

Forgot to mention the fact that, when your team loses people tend to blame the commander. So why bother trying to tell the commander how to lead, when he's the one taking the blame for losing not anyone else. Let him lead how he feels best will achieve VICTORY.

[The_Crazy_Ace]

Simple. Why be a commander if your just going to hop on a vehicle and kill crap? Make a choice, IMO. The ebst place for a commander to be is on the titan guns, attacking the pukes whoa re trying to shoot out your ground defense guns, or in a nice hidey hole at the enemies' base, giving orders, and such, and when no one is looking, C4ing thier assests and such. Some people actually want to be a commander to do just that, command. So pleas,e if your just going to be a commander to use UAV, Supplies, and EMP strikes for yourself, don't be one.

[Tanari]

Because for some folks killing crap contributes to "Winning" More then repairing titan turrets that are useless until sheilds come down. As far as ordering folks, i've addressed that in the above arguments, theres nothing more detering then late night commanding when no squads listen, from what i've seen the only reason people apply for commander is to get the medals,badges, and ribbons. I've yet to see a commander that actually enjoys sitting on their titan ordering people who don't follow orders, while dropping supplies,UAV's, and EMPs. Also your stating that killing crap is the only thing i'm addressing, what about a commander that runs around repairing vech's, or jumps in tank gunner spot, or takes transports and provides high altitude spawn points. Theres many support roles OTHER then just using those unique commands which commanders gain. Simple. Why be a commander if your just going to hop on a vehicle and kill crap? Make a choice, IMO. The ebst place for a commander to be is on the titan guns, attacking the pukes whoa re trying to shoot out your ground defense guns, or in a nice hidey hole at the enemies' base, giving orders, and such, and when no one is looking, C4ing thier assests and such. Some people actually want to be a commander to do just that, command. So pleas,e if your just going to be a commander to use UAV, Supplies, and EMP strikes for yourself, don't be one.

[Premonition]

added your poll :wink:

[Tanari]

ty :) hopefully some folks will bother readin the epic post =) and vote one way or another, i'm jus tired of being accused of not following rules, or being a lousy commander from a couple CLR's. So maybe I can get a decent response from a post here on forums reagrding the issue and then either correct my ways, or 100% ignore those few harassing. Plus its a subject that really has no right or wrong answer, until whoever makes the rules decides one way or the other. Hopefully this don't turn into a rant fest. I tend to enjoy facts laid out for all to see for a mature decision.

[LIMEY]

I do not mind what a commander does as long as they do the primary job of commanding. If they are out and killing stuff but still giving orders then great! Just as long as they still command it is all good! :2thumbs:

FYI I have played with you as a commander tanari and I think you do it quite well! :2thumbs:

[sirchadawick]

do whatever it takes but the commander shouldnt fly because you cant issue orders and such while flying.

[krod_milk]

Commanding is a huge responsibility. I think the commanders need to stay back with the Titan/Home Base and provide whats necessary to win a battle. Of course if some punks are straying to far into your base you can engage them but don't go out into the frontlines. I don't think commanders always need to be giving orders to squad leaders unless they really need to. When I'm squaded up with a good squad, the squad leader does a well enough job ordering where we need to go and attack or defend. And we can ask the commander for support from there. The commander can't always see the best plan of attack from our point of view.

[Scowl]

I have to agree that the commander's job is to win, and to do whatever it takes to win. Of course, everyone plays to win (cheaters/stat padders/etc. don't count), but the difference is that a commander is given tools which can be used to help the entire team. The problem is when these tools are abused and/or wasted.

For those who say that a commander has to sit in one spot and do nothing but issue orders/supplies/emp and orbital strikes, I say that's BS. You help the team win the best way you can. If you can get something done that no one else can or will do (its surprising how often no one will do anything useful when presented with an obstacle), then you've got to do it.

On the other hand, if you jump into a vehicle and rack up a hundred kills and all you've done as commander is drop supplies for yourself, you've wasted all those assets that a commander gets. Sure, a win is a win, but that is after the fact, and up until then you haven't given your team every advantage that you could have. You could have gotten those hundred kills with or without that blue star over your head.

Some people are able to fight and command effectively at the same time, and some (probably most) aren't. It's up to the player to know his or her own limitations, and I can't fault anyone who wants to give it a shot. Of course, for most people it would behoove them to stay out of harm's way as a commander.

For me, the rule of being a commander is that you play to win, and you take care of your team. Sometimes that means dropping supplies and taking UAV requests, sometimes that means reviving your people or taking out whatever has them pinned down. It always means not getting yourself killed every 30 seconds. I guess the bottom line for me is whether you are trying your best to help the team win, or if you're just trying to do your own thing and hoping that the players on your side are good enough to carry the day (assuming that you want to win at all).

[{CLR} Naillik]

I have to agree that the commander's job is to win, and to do whatever it takes to win. Of course, everyone plays to win (cheaters/stat padders/etc. don't count), but the difference is that a commander is given tools which can be used to help the entire team. The problem is when these tools are abused and/or wasted.

For those who say that a commander has to sit in one spot and do nothing but issue orders/supplies/emp and orbital strikes, I say that's BS. You help the team win the best way you can. If you can get something done that no one else can or will do (its surprising how often no one will do anything useful when presented with an obstacle), then you've got to do it.

On the other hand, if you jump into a vehicle and rack up a hundred kills and all you've done as commander is drop supplies for yourself, you've wasted all those assets that a commander gets. Sure, a win is a win, but that is after the fact, and up until then you haven't given your team every advantage that you could have. You could have gotten those hundred kills with or without that blue star over your head.

Some people are able to fight and command effectively at the same time, and some (probably most) aren't. It's up to the player to know his or her own limitations, and I can't fault anyone who wants to give it a shot. Of course, for most people it would behoove them to stay out of harm's way as a commander.

For me, the rule of being a commander is that you play to win, and you take care of your team. Sometimes that means dropping supplies and taking UAV requests, sometimes that means reviving your people or taking out whatever has them pinned down. It always means not getting yourself killed every 30 seconds. I guess the bottom line for me is whether you are trying your best to help the team win, or if you're just trying to do your own thing and hoping that the players on your side are good enough to carry the day (assuming that you want to win at all).
:good:

[obscurehero]

Here it is, and I'll lay it out for you simple.

A commander's job is to win. No Doubt. However, there are certain limitations on how he can accomplish this all important task. Being a commander and all, his primary job is to command. I dont need to explain myself, do I? That being said, it is very hard to command when you're dead staring up at the sky. Am I right?

Oh, but you say that you're so good you won't die? Well, if you're fighting you certainly arent' looking at the commander screen and you certainly arent' scouting out trouble, strategizing, and - oh right - commanding.

The very best commanders will get stuck with some of the worst teams. Its just the way it works. If you're frustrated let someone else command, and be where you are most effective. The best teams, without a doubt, have a strong sense of community and heirarchy. The best squads work together and maybe individually get less points than they would alone (but most likely not). In the same way, the best teams work well when you have a good commander who is planning ahead and orchestrating his squads together. This is why talking is so crucial to a good team.

A team that uses voip, at least between the commander and the squad leaders, has a huge advantage. I don't think you have many excuses to really do much more than look at the commander screen. If you're out attacking and what not, you arent' commanding.


Bottom line. If you're doing what it takes to win, you'll either be on the field where you are better.... or you'll be commanding where you think your influence will out weigh your presesence on the battlefield. Case closed.

[obscurehero]

Some people are able to fight and command effectively at the same time, and some (probably most) aren't. It's up to the player to know his or her own limitations, and I can't fault anyone who wants to give it a shot. Of course, for most people it would behoove them to stay out of harm's way as a commander.

However this is true ^^

[{CLR} Naillik]

A good guide to being an "In the field" commander:

1. USE THAT "T" BUTTON!
Select the squad you want to order when behind cover, and then if interrupted or in the heat of battle, point at the objective and say issue order, and for squad leader requests, just point where the squad leader is and give im what he wants.

2. Don't charge into battle screaming BANZAI!!! (*ahem* massacre)
Try not to die that much, as you cant command when dead.
Go for the sniper/engineer way. shoot people from a distance and when a deadly vehicle comes by, use your EMP strike and then pilum it, which will help out your team tremendously

3. When your team is on the defensive:
WATCH THAT CP AREA!!! stay a little back as support and when
an unnoticed enemy slips through, fire fast and hard to keep your team in .

4. When your team is on the assault:
Stay back and watch the rear CP's. Simple as that.

5. Use the assets.
ONLY WHEN NESCESSARY, unless it is Sat-Track or UAV in which case
you should spam like a grenade.

6. Don't steal your teams kills.
You don't get points for this, they do.
Dont do it.

7. TELL PEOPLE TO SQUAD UP UNTIL THEY DO.
A commander with no/bad squads will suck.
there will always be at least 1-3 Lone Wolves, so dont feel bad if theyre the only ones not listenin.
but often there will be up to 20 lone wolves, so KEEP TELLING THEM TO SQUAD UP!!

Advanced Commanding Tactics.

1. Go Behind Enemy Lines.
Sneak by.
Capture that CP.
Steal Vehicles from Uncaps and deliver them to your team.
Destroy enemy commander assets.
Place APM's around the base randomly, as this will always lower that teams ticket count.

2. Kill stuff when you see it.
go ahead, shoot!

[Dose]

If you fight as commander you will undoubtedly and eventually miss the random enemy lurker(s) who is near or about to capture a flag or silo. If you are busy fighting, defending yourself, or DIEING, instead of spotting these guys out, you are hurting your team far more than you are helping them.
All it takes is one or two enemies to capture a key flag/silo to change the tide of the entire game. A commander who spots them due to SAT-TRACK spam can easily point them out and give his teammates who are near a huge advantage. (The same goes for helping the random solo guy on your team that's trying to cap flags/silos and enemies closing in on him).
Too many commanders throw up a UAV and think their job is done. Running constant SAT-TRACKS and spotting people out is probably the most important job a commander has imo. This is impossible if you're fighting.

[Tails_Kitsune]

I do agree that fighting and commanding is possible. I've seen a few people do if quite effectively, but, as Dose said, sat-tracks can be very effective at spotting out those annoying enemies, and giving your squads very helpful information on enemy movement, easy captures, and where a mass of enemies are advancing to.

If you're fighting and commanding, chances are, there will be some weakness in both. If you're trying to balance both, you're more likely to mis-place important supply drops and UAVs. The best commanders are those who can tell what the enemies are up to, relay that info, and find a good counter.

Fighting and commanding effectively is possible, but I believe if you find a safe spot in the titan, or near a silo, and spend a vast majority of your time in the command screen, you'll be an even more effective commander.

[CarbonFire]

I think fighting and commanding can be complimentary, but only in the right hands. And even then, I have serious doubts that a flying commander can be an effective one (or AS effective as one on the ground). A good commander will: Talk on VoIP with squad leaders, coordinating attacks and holding silos/flags Drop frequent UAV's and spot loner infantry vehicles using Sat Scan ALL ROUND, not just when its requested. Remember, only the commander has an all seeing eye of the battlefield, so he's the one in the position that can anticipate where a UAV or timely spot will do the most good, not the SL on the ground. Make sure the supply boxes come early and often. This one is more of the responsibility of SL than anything else, but a GOOD commander can anticipate when a supply crate could turn the tide of a silo defense/offense (which in-turn can change the flow of the game) EMP strike when necessary, but without Orbital in Titan mode, EMP is almost useless (can rarely be used to help swing a battle to your teams side though) Help bolster Titan Offense/Defense by spotting out and eliminating Titan assaulters, and letting the whole team know when the titan defense needs more people, when the silos need more people, and when is a good time to attack the enemy Titan.I think a good commander can do all these things and stay engaged on the ground....usually defending Titan or a silo. I seriously question whether a good commander can do it while in the air. Sure, you can answer requests well enough, but you're wasting the rest of your talents while doing it. While flying, you have a very clear view of the battlefield, but its a macro view. You aren't going to see the sneaky guy using cloak to run up and jack a walker. You aren't going to always catch that lone jeep zipping around your line for a back flag, especially not when you're engaged in a dogfight or trying to hunt down a SAAW user.

Here's the REAL question. WHY BE COMMANDER IF YOU ARE GOING TO FLY? Unless absolutely no one else is filling the role for game after game, then it just seems like someone doing it to get that extra bonus X2 award for commander points. Because if the ultimate goal is to win, then you certainly can accomplish that by flying WITHOUT having to be commander. In other words, the only reason to fly AND be commander is because you're looking for extra points. And if it's not for points, ask yourself this question: Would I fly and be commander if I was guaranteed never to get any bonus points? What would be the motivation then?

[Tanari]

I believe everyone has made some very nice points, so let me attempt to clear up a few things. First commanders can still fight and drop support for people. Same with flying and dropping support it takes about 2-3 seconds to tab--right click----hit accept button----tab out. Also i'm only talking about commanding in Titan mode, conquest is a different story and i've yet to play more then a dozen rounds of conquest. Also we aren't talking about be 100% effective as commander, we're talking about the job of a commander. By all means I don't plan on being the best commander and there will be very few people up to that task, simple put because everyone has different needs. Maybe a commander for drives a tank won't fulfill someones needs to that person will say commander has to sit on the titan. And as i've been tryin to state not everyone will be happy with a commanders performance, BUT what is allowed? And remember each of you has a different idea of what a GOOD commander is.

So far what i'm seeing is as long as the commander meets the needs of the few people who require his "special" talents then he can do whatever it takes to win.

[Tanari]

BTW you can't tell someone they can't do something unless there is a RULE that says otherwise especially on a postion that is suppose to be the "Leader". That would be like telling your boss he can't take the day off.

[Tanari]

Just eating dinner and playing, I'm noticing that the commander is fighting on the ground, isn't dropping supplies,or any other support fuction, and yet not 1 person is yelling,bitzing, or in any other way saying this commander sucks, not to mention we gonna lose without dropping enemy sheild. So this is being allowed, with 2 admins on currently. This leads me to believe a commander can do whatever he wants, so the next time someone starts talking trash about me commanding I guess I can ignore, until theres a rule in place which governors this realm of game play.

[foxtrot87]

Tanari's Tactics as commander are ... without a doubt most excellent. I can honestly say every round that he is commander we have a 99% percent chance of winning. Because we do something to finish off the other team that no one usually expects.
Most commanders do their thing as you would expect but that doesnt make up for the lack of orders squads follow. Tanari took this into account and lets them do their own thing but plays the eyes in the skies roll very well. Im not sure if my thoughts are on topic but im trying to make the point that nearly all commanders dont do what they are suppose to do... and that is WIN.

Another person thats really good at commanding is StillTrooper.

[obscurehero]

Honestly, do you have something you're worried about. Did somone criticize your style of gameplay at some point to put you on the defensive, or do you just feel the need to be defensive?

Really, I'm curious.

To address your points. You get the position by clicking a button and placing your bets that you've played the dumb game longer than the next guy. Who knows, he could be the next einstein of bf2142 warfare (whatever that is)... but you might beat him out because you play more. Now, does your "commander" position mean anything more than the other players give you? Not really. Now, let me get this right. You're comparing a hierarchial system of employment with bf2142? Right...

Your second point. Forgive my sarcasm, but this is pure genius... people
should run countries this way. So, because your neighbor shoplifts and gets away with it, by golly you should too. What? Are you serious? You're trying to say that you'll do the wrong thing until someone tells you not to? Are you 6?

Ok... I'm sorry. That kind of attitude really grinds my gears.

Here's how cain's lair works. We all try to work as a community. Sharing, caring, working together, and fragging (sounded all cuddly until I got to that last part). When we play, we work together... help each other out. Not because someone told us to, but because thats the quality thats here.

You need to do be a good teammate. Not a great player. If you can to both, excellent! However, lets focus on the first one before we make our way to the second one. A lot of people shared a lot of wisdom on this thread. Lets listen to them eh?

[Tanari]

Actually yeah I am defensive about this subject. I'm trying to get a rule in place, or i'd like to be left alone. Theres a couple CLR I won't name names that will harass the hell out of you if they think you're commanding incorrectly. I don't believe they are admins, but they wear the CLR tag which i've stated I respect. There are other CLR's that have an open mind and notice that normally when I command I win, these CLR's don't tell me not to do something. I'm not attempting to promote the lone wolf style of play, all I want is the freedom to do what I want without someone telling me how I must play. If this freedom gets taken away in the form of a rule then so be it, but if theres no rule, RESPECT HOW OTHERS WISH TO PLAY.

[obscurehero]

I see. Here the awful conundrum rears its ugly head. On one side we have Tanari who wants to play the way he wants to... on the other side we have the "other" CLR's who wish to see different behavior from a commander. Now, who's right???

Your answer is simple actually. You can't say you deserve freedom of action and then bar their freedom from expression. It doesn't make sense. What you can do is realize that there's a lot more to playing in a community then winning. I'm not saying your opponents are right, but what i am saying is that they have a problem with your commanding style (from what I gather). Now you can do one of two things. Ignore them and continue to do what you're doing, or you can consider that you might be wrong. Sometimes, the best move isn't always the case.

In this case, you might be a better commander not alienating friends just so you can win. Also, you shouldnt' need a rule to tell you to play nice with other CLR's. Just saying...

[RobotBanana]

I don't think I've seen you command, so I'll just give my general thoughts on the topic. :)

As has already been said, the commander has a lot of extra abilities that no one else does. Therefore, he should be putting his energy toward using those abilities to better the rest of the team. That means constant Sat Tracks, supply drops, etc. If you want to run into the front lines, you can do so without taking the one and only commander position for your team.

That said, it's also different for each person in each scenario. I've seen commanders who can spew out a constant flow of commander tasks while wiping the battlefield clean of all enemies. Others can barely manage to do their jobs just sitting on the titan deck. Being a commander involves more than just accepting squad leader's requests. You should actively be commanding. In my experience, squads usually don't request much, regardless of how much they really need it.

If you can find a safe spot with a couple of other team mates (perhaps a tower that isn't very popular with the enemy) where you can kill, but you're still safe to pull up the command screen for a minute or two at a time, perfect. Drop a supply box beside you and fire away. But if the only boxes you drop land next to you, you're taking away from the rest of your team.

If the commander is sitting in the titan commanding and the team isn't getting anywhere (one of those teams that can't hold a silo for longer than 10 seconds), they should probably get in a transport and try to help them out. If the team's humming along just fine, the commander should probably fall back and focus on commanding.

As far as the moral issues of ordering go, I don't think I agree with you. It's a game. Players can chose to follow their commander's orders, or they can run around like a headless walker (no? nothing?... well, I tried ;)). The way I see it, orders can be a good thing. Providing that the squads actually work together, having a commander who coordinates attack and defend orders means your team is going to win. I don't feel hostile toward commanders for giving orders. I WANT them to give them.

Although I don't believe there are any server rules about how to command, most commanders just stay in the titan anyway.

Whether or not I agree with you, no one should insult you based on how well they think you play the game. To each their own.

If you feel you're doing a good job and your team is doing well, I want you as my commander. On the other hand, If people are generally displeased, maybe it's time to revise your strategy. Find the point where combat starts taking priority over commanding, and take a step back.

[Tanari]

Actually theres been 2 CLR's who have had problems with my command style. I was actually threatened by one of those. The other CLR's i've played with have little to no problems regarding my command style. To make this into a 1 person versus a majority opinion isn't correct. And as I've stated before i'm all about freedoms, but when peoples freedom's take away from others there is a problem, which needs a solution. I see commander's who don't do anything the entire time they play, and no one says nothing. But the moment someone see's a commander actually fighting the above couple CLR"s i've mentioned throw warnings,threats, and are otherwise incapable of comprehending that there is no rule saying a commander can't do whatever they are doing. We all know the rule of NO titan movement, but how many people continued to move the titan even though it was a rule you weren't allowed to do it. Now we got a couple people making a stink about commanders not commanding, and its not even a rule they must command. It might be "common sense", but until theres a written rule that says what a commander is or isn't allowed to do then how can these couple CLR's warn,or threaten commanders who may or may not being doing their job....

I would like either a rule in place which says commander must stay on their titan, and it to be enforced the same as titan movement was. How its to be enforced i've no clue.

OR

I want it recognized that there is NO rule about commanding and that commanders are free to do what they want just like every other person in the game.

I really don't care about what should be, because everyone has a different idea of what should be. But If theres a stated rule, or decision which people can state to defend themselves then events like someone with a power trip can't attempt to bully others when they can just tell that bully that either this is the rule or this is the decision that was collectively thought up.

What was told to me (threatened) was this.

If you don't stop flying and start commanding I will have you banned. You can't command while flying if you don't resign I will get you kicked.

I've yet to see these demands made by ANYONE else but 2 people, and i've only seen them directed at myself, i'm guessing these people make the same demands of other commanders, if they truely believe that a commanders job is to stay on their titan. So maybe other commanders have had similar problems, but i'm not the type to swallow stuff if I think its wrong. The forums are a unique way to voice those complaints and have the issue dealt with by those who normally play on this server.

I think respecting peoples style of game play is excellent, but i'm against respecting peoples style of game play when it enforces certain restricitions on others style of game play. And once again I state, How can you tell someone they can't do something, when theres many others who do even less and yet they aren't singled out or warned or anything else.

[Gunship]

I just left the 2142 server, and I was on the same team as Tanari. He and I argued about what has been said on this post, but what got me is that after he flew around the whole time, he told squad leaders "everyone go on the titan when shields goes down"... When we had no silos, and our titan blew up, there was no commander.

I actually tried to get the commander position, and he quit at the end of the round so he didn't have to get the loss.

Then, the level changed.

And he got commander again.

Tanari, you never said in these posts how you become shady when your team needs a commander. In fact, everything you posted about this topic is a bunch of crap. You're in the commander position for double points. Please don't be a noob commander. Go play single player if you want to command and fly.

[Tanari]

Double the points? I can easily get more points without taking the commander position. I do it almost every time I ain't commander.

Actually I flew around in 2 gunships then I stayed on titan for a bit eatting my breakfast and issueing out uav's emps supply drops, then I took a transport to the enemy titan.

Yes I did resign commander post when the lose was evident, is this agaist the rules? far as I know i'm just using good sense and keeping my win/loss ratio intact.

Next round I took it again, and flew a transport around the entire time at max elevation and we won. Didn't issue out anything cause none were requested

Next round I took it again, and we won again. I flew gunship and transport.

And your neglecting to tell folks your VOIP conversation where every other word to me was an insult, where I never insulted you whatsoever, I told u that you were entitled to your beliefs and to act like the adult you sounded to be. Sound like your mad because I posted a complaint about you in the "Report a Jerk" section of this board.

[Dead...Again]

Okay, here are my $.02. I don't know if I have played when Tanari was commander, so this is all general and not directed at any individual (except the moron who was commanding one round last night).
The commander's primary role on the battlefield is to support the rest of the team by issuing orders, using UAV, etc. (the special abilities they have. AFAIK, commanders do not get points for killing people, capping silos, etc. Their points are based on the average score of the people they are commanding. If they are not properly aiding the team by giving good orders, providing UAV and supplies, spotting the enemy, etc. then the team will generally do worse. This will give you less points and decrease your likelyhood of getting 2x.
Now to the moron comment. Last night I was playing Titan defending silo 1. I repeatedly asked the commander for supplies and UAV, both through the comm rose and via VOIP. I never got a response. As far as I know, our commander didn't use UAV once the entire round. At one point, I found the commander running around at Silo 1 (where I was). I asked him again for UAV and supplies. Still no response. This is ridiculous! Why the hell are you going to be commander if you aren't going to support the team.
End rant.

[Thrashdragon]

A fighting commander will never be as effective as one that concentrates exclusively on commanding. A flying one even less so. That said, while we do not have a hard-and-fast rule against flying commanders here, it is generally frowned upon and a common rule on many servers and if you're going to do it, be prepared to get hollered at. Personally I don't care what the commander chooses to do in Titan mode as long as he's paying at least a little bit of attention.

What was told to me (threatened) was this.

If you don't stop flying and start commanding I will have you banned. You can't command while flying if you don't resign I will get you kicked.

No CLR should ever be threatening anyone with kicking or banning. If an admin needs to remove someone, we will do it, but we will do it quietly. We don't threaten people here. If this occurs again, you need to PM Cain or an admin about it.

Yes I did resign commander post when the lose was evident, is this agaist the rules? far as I know i'm just using good sense and keeping my win/loss ratio intact.

This is the one thing that really bothers me. Why do you care about preserving a stat that by your own actions, doesn't mean anything? In addition, you hung your team out to dry by resigning. I've seen Titan matches do a complete turnaround numerous times, that's not possible when the commander resigns when things start looking rough. :P

[The_Crazy_Ace]

My thoughts exactly. My real beef is when commanders utilize vehicles that cannot be fully opeated ( Armored Vehicles, flying things) when one is dealing with two screens at one.I'd rather see Rand and Massacre (On my team!) in a pair of tanks than a commander who is splitting time between giving orders and dropping supplies. If your a commander and devoting your entire time to vehicle operation..why are you commanding? My belief is that a combat commander should be the exception, not the norm. I respect you, Tanari, but I disagree with your commanding philosophy. As such, I'll agree to disagree. :)

[Tanari]

Thrashdragon I resigned 10seconds before our titan blew up. Maybe even less then that. Up until then I was doing what I could to win.

[obscurehero]

:|

Can we be done with this. I feel like we're creating drama where there shoud be none

[Thrashdragon]

Thrashdragon I resigned 10seconds before our titan blew up. Maybe even less then that. Up until then I was doing what I could to win.

Fair enough, but I'm still curious as to why you care about a fake stat? If you cheat the system, it really doesn't mean anything. :?

[Tanari]

Shrug :) lil off topic but a pin is a pin I don't care how I get it long as I not cheating/glitching

[CarbonFire]

Thrashdragon I resigned 10seconds before our titan blew up. Maybe even less then that. Up until then I was doing what I could to win.

Fair enough, but I'm still curious as to why you care about a fake stat? If you cheat the system, it really doesn't mean anything. :?

I am too :?

Tanari, you're already a General, and with a 1.14 W:L ratio, the War College Ribbon is just about completely out of reach at this point. So what's the motivation?

Yes I did resign commander post when the lose was evident, is this agaist the rules? far as I know i'm just using good sense and keeping my win/loss ratio intact.
While I have been guilty of caring too much about winning rather than having fun in the past, I think this is the wrong attitude to have, at least for around here. First and foremost, we try to have fun and play like a team. There are no rules against it, but it is a weenie, unsportsmanlike thing to do.

Like I said before, if no one is commanding consistently round after round, then its ok for SOMEONE to be commander. But taking up the spot when there's someone who could do better, well that just seems selfish and would actually hurt your chances of winning in the long-run.

[pigworthy]

Commander should command and thats it, on a 64 man server. If he wants to get in fire fights here and there, fine. But he should leave all assets for the other players.

In my opinion if you've commanded for the round and quit just before you lose to save your record. Your cheating and you shouldn't be commanding. Take the bad with the good. Maybe you lost, because you weren't commanding properly?

In BF2 it was a rule, no flying or tank commanders.

[darth_nevus]

Here's a quick intro the the 2142 point system to clear this up a bit.

if you play both command and non command, here's how it breaks down.

you get the normal points when you are a soldier, not commander. these points are never calculated in the 2x for winning bonus.

You get command points based off the time you are in service as commander only, and even then its an average of the players during the time you are commanding. you get 0 points for kills.

here's an example breakdown.

Let say the round takes 10 minutes, and his side wins.

the first 3 are spent as commander. the next 3 as a soldier, the next 2 as command, the next 2 as a soldier.

Total: 5 minutes as commander, 5 minutes as a soldier

in the first 3 minutes he gets 10 points as commander, and resigns. the next 3 he walks around killing folks, and earns 20 points doing so. the next 2 minutes he earns 5 points as commander, resigns, and becomes a soldier for the last 2 and earns 15 points.

now here's how its calculated.

Soldier points: 20+15=35. so 35 points total.
Commander points: 10+5=15. 15x2 = 30. so 30 points as commander.

Add them together you get 65. not 100 points.

This is done to add fairness to the ole' mutiny the comamnder in the last 5 minutes to take his spot for 2x the points.


Pros are:

As a soldier, you have a good chance of earning high scores from lots of killing and teamwork, even if you lose.
As a Commander, if your team does well, so do you!

Cons are:

As a Soldier, you lose out on the oppertunity to get the 2x score.
As a Commander, if you lose, you can wind up with a poor score with a bad team.

[Tanari]

Carbonfire i'll bet you $50 to cains server fund if I don't get the war college ribbon within a month or two =)

[Tanari]

And yes I know how the points are done :) Points me squat to me since i'm a general already. All I care about is the win/loss record. And if i'm cheating the system by resigning the command in the last 10sec so be it :) its not against any rules bfroe,cains, or any other server that i've heard of.

And once again this post was tryin to figure out what the rule is regarding commanders. So far all I see is a bunch of opinions. If no admins wish to make a direct rule regarding commander postion and enforce it, then there are no rules regarding commanders, either way is fine by me cause either way I can tell people to leave me alone and ignore them if needed while I continue to command the way I am now.

[CarbonFire]

Carbonfire i'll bet you $50 to cains server fund if I don't get the war college ribbon within a month or two =)

Playing only on Cain's Lair? Maybe I'd take that bet. But its way too easy to join a server without autobalance on though, and get a win every round, time after time. That's just stat padding, and I wouldn't dignify that with a bet.

To get the war college ribbon from where you're at now, you'd need to win AT MINIMUM 418 games in the next month without a single loss. That's approximately 14 wins a day, for a month. The ONLY ways to pull that off is to pull the cheap team-switch trick, or play on a team-stacking clan server that always plays one-sided conquest maps as EU.

What I was driving at is the stats don't matter, not that I was challenging you to prove me wrong. There are always going to be ways to cheat the stat system, that's why I don't give it much respect. It's not about the numbers, it's about the game, it's about respecting your fellow players, and mostly it's about fun.

[Tanari]

You should also know I play only Cains and I got the time :) I'm very goal oriented as u can see by my gunship ranking and time played. I've only been playin this game since dec 30th. less then 2 months.

[foxtrot87]

I like pizza..... :oops:

[Tanari]

Pizza pockets FTW, and lotsa Coke/Pepsi....And did I mention you gotta have a good college schedule too =P

[Tanari]

Carbon I do have 1 question....Does the win/loss record count only when your commanding or does it count when u not commanding.

[CarbonFire]

I like pizza..... :oops:

I do too, and you're right, this discussion is probably needing to fade away for now. If rules need to change, then Cain and the admins will figure that out. For now, PLAY ON!

[pauldovi]

A lot of server require the commander to hang out and do nothing in the Titan / Uncap. I think the commander can have a more active role during the game. Often when I command I play engineer and defend one of the back flags. In Titan mod I often find a nice spot to hide with the SAAW AA gun and I shoot down aircraft that are flying around. Sometimes I will hand out in a tank / walker and repair as necessary. I defend the Titan, repair titan guns or command assets, as well as support a squad that may be getting a lot of fire. At the same time, I am also in the commander screen giving out UAV's, Supplies, and spotting out enemies. Commanders are truly handy capped if they cannot do more than sit in the command screen. We all know that no one listens to the commanders anyways.

[Dose]

Commanders are truly handy capped if they cannot do more than sit in the command screen. We all know that no one listens to the commanders anyways.

Not true.

[Dead...Again]

It is your total w:l record, not just as commander. So resigning before the round ends makes no difference; you still get credited with the loss. The only thing you can do is switch sides.

[Tanari]

Ah cool that helps a lot =) this should go much quicker now with less hassle =P

[CarbonFire]

Carbon I do have 1 question....Does the win/loss record count only when your commanding or does it count when u not commanding.
AFAIK, its ALL wins and losses, not just commander wins/losses.

And agree with Dose, I don't think a commander that's glued to the com screen is "handicapped". I do think that someone whose GOOD at commanding can do both, but I think their first prioirty should always be making sure things are running well from overhead, not being on the ground. If you have two good teams, the deciding factor can often be who has better information/support, and that's where the commander comes in.

[Dead_And_Gone]

TiTan is abit different than CQ. TiTan is alittle more forgiving.

I don't appreciate a commander taking a tank and parking it at the base in CQ TiTan maps. It takes away any chance of squaddies to get said tank, and there are other defend base technique's. Sounds like they just want the bonus time inside armor pin. I've seen it done on TiTan also, and it makes little sense to me.

CQ, you are doing scans, UV's, drops, EMP strikes. (And EMP's seriously mess up the attacking team in that area, so they aren't useless) Telling SL's of a jeep that just made it thru to back flag area. VERY busy. I'm sure that there are people who can assault or snipe while being commander. IMO, there just isn't enough time between scans to be effective as a driver/ground pounder. (Unless defending base with Soccer balls and Pilum/SAAW/AA guns, sentry, etc...) I'm sure there are people who can multi-task, but I'm not one of them. Wind up getting killed just to stat pad the other team.

Had a CQ round with Fishbiter, that the commander never would reply, or give us supplies. I was almost down to throwing rocks in my Hover tank. Ended the round with 2 shots left after a kindly support troop stopped by.
Was the commander assaulting? Or hanging back at base? He/She seriously compromised my ability to kill, as I had to be ultra conservative after running low. Where was the Commander? Good Question.

Possibly TiTan is more Commander friendly than CQ is, and allows more latitude. I've had trouble even getting INTO the TiTan server, and thus have never commanded there.

CQ, commander goes Eng, puts down rollers and a resupply crate. Gets in AA gun on TiTan maps, or on regular CQ maps takes out his/her trusty Pilum/missiles and Soccer balls for most maps. Fixes the assets if/when get blown. I think this is a very busy job.

Although I've yet to see it on Gibraltor, they COULD go recon, put down APM's and RDX's at the choke points and kick some serious rears. It would save alot of back flag takers from ever making any headway. BOOM!!!

Just my .02c also... I take commander's job too seriously to mess around double dipping. But, to each his/her own.

[Rand{CLR}]

I can't even count how many times I run out of tank shells and have to spend the next 5-10 minutes either trying to find a crate or to get a repair guy to actually respond to numerous "gimme ammo" requests.

If I'm lucky, I'll end up somewhere with a long-dropped crate or a fresh tank sitting there that I can trade up to.

-Rand